[2], The trust notified Fierceton at the beginning of 2021 that it was conducting an investigation into the allegations. [22], In the New Yorker article, Fierceton and others criticized Penn for its use of not only her story but another recent FGLI Rhodes awardee as poverty porn, suggesting the university had turned on her when it learned she had actually come from a privileged, affluent background and thus did not fit the narrative of having grown up in foster care recounted in its news release and the accompanying Inquirer article. The lawsuit, filed on behalf of Mackenzie Fierceton claimed that Penn officials targeted the grad student for retaliation after she became a key witness in a wrongful death lawsuit filed against the university. RG: so that people have the background there. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? If we review your medical records, are we going to see you had broken ribs and facial injuries? [Laughs.]. They took photographs of Caster's staircases and elevators, and interviewed witnesses and some of the Penn paramedics who had responded. What about Rhodes? If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to also check out Intercepted as well as Murderville, which is now in its second season. And so, like I mentioned earlier, I dont want to go over too much of the history that led up to your battle with Penn and with the Rhodes trust, because people can find that in The New Yorker article that came out recently, you went over that in some pretty decent length; in Katie Courics podcast in a recent interview there. MF: Yeah. So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. Smith said he believed the university had decided before it began investigating that Fierceton's abuse allegations were false and that she had fabricated them with the goal of finding an easier way into Penn or another elite school. And then theres also foster siblings in the sense of other people who are in the foster care system who youre living with. [Laughs.] When I came to Penn and saw all of these students who were living that life, there was a sense of community and solidarity amongst us, which was very powerful for me because I just felt so out of place. Its a very different lifestyle. [2] Fierceton and her mentor reconstructed the conversation and transcribed it; the university has claimed it is inaccurate but the mentor stands by it. Who are your biological family? Fierceton was born August 9, 1997, under the name Mackenzie Terrell, in Danbury, Connecticut,[1] to Carrie Morrison, a physician who would later head the breast imaging department at St. Luke's Hospital in Chesterfield, where the couple lived. RG: I think for a lot of us, we have to sort of other poverty and abuse and put it in a box, partly, to protect ourselves. And if you havent already, please subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. The teen said she was sent to. RG: Thats been my understanding of it. As youve had time to sort through this, what do you think was driving Penn to go through this process, which they had to know, at some level, would cost them? I cant remember if it was in the Rhodes essay or in another essay that, in hindsight, you wouldve tightened up. Again, this is obviously secondhand, because I was unconscious. [4] After gathering all the evidence, they approached Driver's widow, Roxanne Logan, who had not been informed of the accessibility issues and delays involved in her husband's death; in fact she had been given the impression he had been evacuated from the building almost as soon as he began experiencing symptoms. But it was just kind of this rapid fire of: If we look at your medical records, are we going to see you had broken ribs and severe facial injuries? RG: Right. And it was a very similar situation where it took everyone a long time to get to the building. So one question was: Are you from a low-income family? And I turned over all this information to his widow. Is it as well explored territory as a school-to-prison pipeline? Thats not in question. I really appreciate it. And that dynamic, I would say, [laughs] probably played a big part in all of this. Am I right about that? Like one of them was describing a biological child in a house as another foster child, and something about a half-brother or something.What were those and how were those errors kind of deployed against you? And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. [i] Ruderman corroborated that later to The New Yorker, saying she was paraphrasing Fierceton's self-identification as FGLI. Enough bruises? But now looking back and rereading that article in the last year and seeing that it virtually had no information. But when you're filling out a box where it's "yes" or "no" and there's no more information or "kind of!" Mackenzie Fierceton grew up poor, cycling through the rocky child welfare system. And we spoke for a long time and I went through everything I had found. [2] They learned that SP2 had no real protocol for an emergency situation in the building. And then as the different internships, and then I went to get my masters in social work and all of this happened, I started to see that continue in different capacities while I was in different roles, seeing that theme in this relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? And especially, again, like these stereotypes of black and brown, low-income families, the knee-jerk reaction is like: Oh, well, theyre unequipped to be a parent. Yes, to my lawyer who communicated it to me. And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. [2], To White, Morrison repeated her story that her daughter had fabricated the abuse allegations. RG: Yeah. Mackenzies critics even began nitpicking how much blood was in her hair while she was in the intensive care unit. What happened the night you ended up in foster care? [2], Morrison's lawyer questioned Fierceton closely about apparent differences between her medical records from the hospital and her description of her injuries in a scholarship application essay the lawyer had obtained, and other details from the latter, such as the "metallic" taste of a feeding tube that was plastic and her claim that she was unable to recognize her own facial features in the hospital mirror, when her medical records showed that her injuries were well short of being even temporarily disfiguring. "They are the people that support you, look out for you, & love you unconditionally. So I started while I was an undergrad and was taking classes at the same time. She recalled showing up at the foster home with her new clothes in a plastic bag, feeling "like a passenger in my own body", she recalled later. He was earlier arrested in Chattanooga, Tennessee. A petition to the county circuit court to have the arrest expunged was granted in a one-page order that attributed the arrest to "false information". MF: verbally. She applied to a program at Penn's School of Social Policy and Practice (commonly referred to at Penn as SP2) that would allow her to begin graduate studies while still an undergraduate, so she could graduate with a master's degree in the field a year after completing her undergraduate degree. [4] Within days, the father of one of Fierceton's Whitfield friends, and a high-school classmate using an anonymous email, contacted Penn to inform them she had apparently misrepresented herself and had actually spent most of her childhood in her mother's home in an affluent West County suburb of St. Louis. She didnt know any of the circumstances of his death. I mean, youd been taking loss after loss, despite having the facts on your side. Or is this something thats been overlooked? Absolutely. And at the time I was like: Why what? And its mentioned briefly. In its response to Fierceton's lawsuit, the university says its general counsel talked with Hayes, who said that bringing the charges had been the "biggest mistake" of his career. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. Its just so obvious that you fit the criteria for low-income, but it seems like they feel like you dont fit it in the spirit of how they want it. I n November 2020, University of Pennsylvania graduate student Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, won the Rhodes Scholarship to study at Oxford University. MF: You know, I honestly dont know. Yes. And I think its striking to read that back and just see how clearly distressed and distraught I was in continuing to push on that series of questions about a really traumatic experience. So that was what the actual poem and personal statement was about [laughs.] I think [its] called Penn First, I believe, and it seems like you socially spent a lot of time with them? Her sister also wrote White as well, alleging that Fierceton "deliberately tried to frame Carrie and planted 'evidence' around the house, including her own blood. The New Yorker reported it was written by an anonymous sender who displayed a great deal of familiarity with Mackenzies childhood that showed Mackenzie engaging in typical upper middle-class childhood activities, like horseback riding and going to the beach.. So it makes some sense that they were very similar questions. [1]:111112, Penn's investigators asked Fierceton why she had pretended to be asking on another's behalf when she made her queries within the university. Just a quick circling back, Im actually not sure if it was her who first reached out or if it was General Counsel Wendy White, because I later found out that they had a phone call about 36 hours after the article came out and seemed to talk pretty extensively, and then there were a lot of emails that happened. And it started with, this paragraph-and-a-half of waking up in the hospital and then, like you said, looking at my face, not recognizing myself, and kind of describing what I felt like and what the room looked like. In a 25-minute conversation, she went into detail with Fierceton about her past and what she planned to do with her scholarship. Right. he asked in the first. Consider what the world of media would look like without The Intercept. The notation in her transcript remains. Those investigations revealed that for the first 17 years of her life, Fierceton was raised by her mother, Dr. Carrie Morrison, an accomplished physician. And I didnt really know any information, except for that he had had a medical emergency in class and then been pronounced dead at the hospital. Did they make that threat in writing or was that . RG: So how is a person who is filling out this application supposed to know what definition youre supposed to use? And I turned over all this information to his widow. And so, Mackenzie, you and I were just talking offline. Morrison then brought suit in circuit court to have the board's decision reviewed and reversed. MF: Yeah. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? I had never heard of FGLI, but these labels resonated with a story I was still trying to process. She feared that her mother had inflicted the injuries, perhaps out of jealousy that Lovelace was attracted to her, even as it seemed to Fierceton that Morrison was "offering [her] up to him on a silver platter". In retrospect, I just honestly wish I had never written about those people, but it was kind of one of those things where I was like: OK, I need to make my point. [2][5] It did not disclose that it had done so until March. The dean of SP2 told Penn otherwise, but Fierceton noted that the school had never shared what its definition was. And then it just launched into the first half being a line-by-line it felt like interrogation of my applications. I cant remember if it was in the Rhodes essay or in another essay that, in hindsight, you wouldve tightened up. [c] Chewing was difficult as well, and she had a feeding tube inserted. [1], Shortly after Penn filed its response, the Chronicle of Higher Education reported on the story. Every objective and careful reviewer of the facts in this case including the Rhodes Trust, Penns Office of Student Conduct, a faculty committee from Fiercetons graduate school at Penn, and a hearing panel consisting of faculty and students from other Penn schools concluded that Fierceton had not been truthful.. RG: And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? MF: But yeah, that, I guess, just one point of clarification that I recently, in the last few months, just found out about. Whereas a social worker comes into a poor home and looks around and sees just the normal poverty that our system has foisted on people and says: Oh, well, clearly this is somebody that needs to be stripped out of here. Morrison told White in an email. In early 2022, after stories about her struggle with Penn and the Rhodes Trust received national attention from stories in The Chronicle of Higher Education and The New Yorker, commentators took the university, and American elite higher education in general, to task for its use of the story of Fierceton and some other recent Rhodes recipients as poverty porn and its shifting definition of an FGLI student. But it was in the sense of: I didnt recognize myself both because I was beaten and my face was swollen and whatever, and I felt like at rock bottom and broken. There was also the part of me that was terrified. Theres no cell phone reception in the basement. Uh, my lawyer. The kind of reporting we do is essential to democracy, but it is not easy, cheap, or profitable. [2] When she turned 18, she formally left foster care[d] but continued living with the family whose home she was in. Fierceton, according to Penn's response, had learned during her parents' divorce how to make calls to the child-abuse hotline and that teachers were mandatory reporters. Teachers at Whitfield who had been supportive while she was there dropped out of touch. box, it's like you have to fit yourself in, saying: Are you the first in your family to attend? Even though I had, again, written statements from two ICU nurses who took care of me saying: Yes, there was blood, [laughs] theres photographs, and there still was the argument of like, there wasnt enough blood or your face wasnt so distorted you could couldnt tell who you were. Penn shut down in-person classes and gave students living on campus a week to find somewhere else to live until it was safe to return. Its just so obvious that you fit the criteria for low-income, but it seems like they feel like you dont fit it in the spirit of how they want it. [3], Before that happened, Fierceton withdrew from the scholarship on her own. [2], Fierceton was accepted at the University of Pennsylvania (commonly known as Penn) on a full scholarship, arranged through QuestBridge. The teacher recalled that she had black eyes and hair matted with blood, a description corroborated by a nurse who saw her on arrival after an ambulance brought her to nearby Mercy Hospital St. Louis. So I was like: OK, fine. I didnt even really think about it when I checked it, because I felt like I had a lot of information that backed it up. Given the pandemic, Rhodes Scholar judges interviewed candidates over Zoom. So one question was: Are you from a low-income family? She is a student who found herself in a complex and easily-misunderstood situation: working towards her degree without support from family. RG: First of all, thats one box? And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. Gathering outside Caster, whose renovation they also demanded, they marched toward College Hall, where Winkelstein had taken over as interim provost following Gutmann's departure, and chanted for her ouster as well. MF: I think youre right. Fierceton was living off-campus by then, but she and her roommates decided to leave their apartment. I tried to help as much as I could. And I was the one who uncovered my classmates death. She ruined her moms career. And because poverty and abuse are so pervasive in society and particularly in a country that has such a minimal social safety net and has so much violence. And MacKenzie is the only one whos allowed to answer these questions. A college counselor suggested she apply through QuestBridge, a nonprofit that helps qualified students in need find schools that will give them full financial support. "[25], "I cannot avoid the sense that Mackenzie is being faulted for not having suffered enough", Norton told The New Yorker. How did you get to school? And so the fact that shes continued pursuing you to me kind of demonstrates the entire case. Thats been my understanding of it. "[2], Near the end of November Fierceton was named one of 32 Rhodes scholars from the U.S. for the year. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. And that feels like one of them where it feels like the system is willfully misunderstanding reality in order to bend it in their direction. And then the other question was: Are you the first in your family to attend college? Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. So, to cut into the interview here real quick, I wanted to add that Mackenzie is referring to a letter sent to the Rhodes Trust in December 2020. And at the time I was like: Why what? I think they have said, well, theres different definitions and the dean who is the dean of the grad school said: Well, thats not our definition. The reporter had assumed based on her status as a FGLI student which stands for first-generation, low-income that she had been poor her entire life. RG: Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. And so thats the low-income box. RG: So, to cut into the interview here real quick, I wanted to add that Mackenzie is referring to a letter sent to the Rhodes Trust in December 2020. She is suing Penn for defamation, arguing its real goal in investigating her was to discredit her as a witness in and retaliate for a wrongful death suit filed against the university by the widow of a fellow student which Fierceton instigated. I think there were almost 30 of those letters again, very similar to who had given statements in the past to corroborate my abuse as well as leaders in the FGLI community saying yes, we started this community. Her supporters at Penn have called for the university's acting provost, Beth Winkelstein, to be held accountable for her role in the investigation, which has been characterized as a continuation of the abuse. Youre engaged in a lawsuit with Penn. Yeah. "[1]:119, Dismissal of mother's charges and expurgation of records, Role in wrongful death suit against university, In its response to Fierceton's suit, Penn quotes Fierceton as telling police as soon as they entered her hospital room after her later injury about her diary and that it would tell them everything they would need to know. And thats an unfortunate reality so many survivors experience, not having a lot of documentation. Who would hold party elites accountable to the values they proclaim to have? So they heard from her and immediately they call you into a meeting with the deputy provost at the time, Beth Winkelstein . And so youre becoming rather inconvenient to the university at that point , I would assume, which plays into the way that universities and elite structures think of diversity, I think. So the Rhodes Trust ended up after their quote-investigation, and I submitted all the evidence, they ended up still recommending that my scholarship be rescinded, uh, but I had another opportunity to respond to their report, which I absolutely wanted to do. Again following the advice of her college counselor, she did not identify her parents on her application, since she was estranged from both of them (she describes them both as "biological"[3][2]). Cause then you cant think that it could be you. She did not remember what had caused it. ")[3], The OSC report also concluded that nothing in her academic record warranted the revocation of either degree. Right. And do you know Linda Tirado? So therefore that doesnt fit their understanding of low-income, despite the fact that your mother was no longer your legal guardian, youre a ward of the state. Like some students do have a story, more like me where they had some kind of separation from their family; other students their parents were doctors or lawyers or Ph.D. students in other countries, but then they came here and their degrees no longer, essentially, counted or people who are just first-generation and not necessarily low-income or people who are low-income, but not first-generation. I took photos of the building and sent it to them, and I was connecting them with different people who were in my class, who were in his class. It's from there the story unraveled. [2] She was also working two jobs, as a policy fellow with Philadelphia City Council and another interning in social work at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. And back in high school, it was a similar thing. Fierceton wished that she had been more willing to correct mistaken impressions that she might have made and at the time "just kind of crumbled behind the pressure. So that was, I think later on that specific line came into question. She had bruises all over her body in different stages of healing an obvious sign of child abuse.. She had begun to remember more about the incident, and while still not certain how it had happened recalled that before it she and her mother had been fighting about Lovelace. Its practically half of Americans, or more. Enough bruises? students, defines first generation broadly, including students who have a strained or limited relationship with a parent who has graduated from college. So therefore that doesnt fit their understanding of low-income, despite the fact that your mother was no longer your legal guardian, youre a ward of the state. But I got a bit of pressure from Penn to do that. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. And, in this case, almost everyone who was involved in the university administration are upper middle class or very wealthy, highly academically educated white women. RG: Mhmm. Two other women he was involved with had also reported him to law enforcement). Like, it seemed like an airtight case from my perspective. After her mother left, Fierceton got out of bed, found a spare set of keys and drove herself to school. And Im kind of one of the lucky ones where I had really expansive and thorough documentation for all the parts of this story. RG: Penn didnt respond to a request for comment, but in its response to Mackenzies lawsuit, they write: Penn denies that there are accessibility problems with the Caster Building which contributed to Mackenzies medical emergency or to [Cameron] Drivers death. Fierceton applied for the Rhodes Scholarship with assistance from Penn's Center for Undergraduate Research and Fellowships. It was more, I think, in the times after and the months after where I ended up like giving different medical records and all of these things to corroborate my account, but there were a few questions that were very specific to what had happened. The reality star has struggled with drug addiction for years. The article by reporter Rachel Aviv was called How an Ivy League School Turned Against a Student, and it tells the story of an extraordinary battle between Mackenzie and the University of Pennsylvania. Her junior year at Whitfield, a prestigious prep school, Mackenzie showed up to school one day in a terrible state. [2], Fierceton moved into the first of several foster homes, with one other foster sibling and two biological children of the foster parents. And especially, again, like these stereotypes of black and brown, low-income families, the knee-jerk reaction is like: Oh, well, theyre unequipped to be a parent. RG: And I just want to read this for people. Cause I had assumed it was her. I was like: Great. Uh, my lawyer. RG: Like questioning: How much blood? One of them, to me, felt pretty clear that it was probably from someone in my biological family, because it had photos of me; it had very specific information that very few people would have and I dont think many people would have random childhood photos of me. She was . [Laughs.]. RG: Or whatever our kind of contemporary version of it is. Medical records, records from child welfare services, corroborating letters from detectives and lawyers and elementary, middle, and high school teachers, childhood friends, professors basically everyone who had known me. Morrison's name was therefore ordered removed from the DSS registry. 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