Oh, you mean like accusing someone of a logical fallacy, which you never did substantiate? White got frustrated with me because I didnt give the answer he wanted in response to a cheap debaters trick. Was the New Testament Reliably Transmitted from its Authors? In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. We should storm heaven with prayers for his conversion. If ya hold to one. So anyone who tries to portray critics of the Lordship Salvation As for my knowledge (or lack of it, which I freely admit) giving me standing to pronounce a critical similarity between Catholic authoritarianism and Islamic authoritarianism, it really doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the epistemological loop you both employ to assert your authority. Unsubstantiated? The intention of the radical Muslim who beheads is to bring death to those whom they disagree with. So, was he saying that Roman soldiers came back from the dead? Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM Oh yeah, I do remember JW being quiet upset at the depiction of him on DAs blog. Here is the context of my comment in my Aug. 11, 11:15 pm post: No, I didnt. It was a distortion. 1. like this. CareBear says Since Mr White is apparently reading everything with his name on it, & since he has no combox (probably a wise move, considering what I feel like posting there): I have thought about this since I heard a radio interview with a truly moderate Muslim who is trying to spread the word through the Muslim world about the way the extremist Muslims totally twist the verses in the Koran and interpret them to suit their agenda. The Pharisees were definitely into winning, but here they pulled a loser because they didnt get the kingdom concept, that its about the heart, not the housing, be it political, institutional, or otherwise. Even between St. Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, for example! The Revelation of Zephaniah That is the data I have used for analysis, nothing more. Russ, absolutely. CB, Sandy, Gwen and the others have a filter through which they view the church, church history, and arguments against the church. Catholics are constantly ridiculed. Athanasius? saved without works. Whats interesting to note is that Jimmy Akin doesnt surreptitiously erase the errors hes made on this blog unlike others Ive observed in the past. However, even men can choose to get inked with this. I follow the Bishops, because they are the successors to the Apostles (IOW, I believe in Apostolic succession, which, BTW, is in the Bible). The basis is your own reflection. Posts are filled with illustrations of the situation that make White out ot be the devil and yet Akin seems to have clean hands. And so Catholics began to call themselves Catholic. In that same century St. Augustine said: All heretics wish to call themselves Catholics; yet if you ask any of them to direct you to a Catholic church, he will not direct you to his own! Was his audience limited to Catholics? Personally, I cant think of anything scarier than a J.A dolly. That is not in the interest of Catholic Answers, unless you think they are a bunch of very stupid people. Bartholomew the disciple came to me in a vision and revealed to me a secret special knowledge: Q reads too many Ehrman and Pagels books. At the very beginning of this thread, CareBear had practically bragged about his supposedly superior logic which he compares with those of the inferior Roman Catholic fanbois here. In fact, I got a chuckle out of them. If there were genuine principles involved here then Jimmy would sanction a distancing from James White and Mark Shea but we know that Jimmys boss is bankrolling publication of some upcoming books from the very same Mark Shea. The closest thing we have to a consensus is that a lot of folks think Mr. White is being childish, and that many of his defenders are counter-productive. 1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged. I was an Anticatholic, Reformed Baptist, from (at least 3) previous generations of AntiCatholic Reformed Baptist Preachers Akin has not interacted with Dr. White to anyones knowledge as far as the public is concerned. 7:10,11) Fox, But our home is elsewhere and we should long to return. James White Teaches Has the Quran Been Accurately Transmitted? How can you think youre right when you dont know what right is? And mayb3e a little too much moral relativism going on here too. When White does this analogy to jihadism to make his point, I think he does it out of a deep sense of frustration And how Luther taught that if one is to sin, sin great, but believe and pray even greater which makes the entire concept of Protestanism lunacy to begin with. Dont you? (And he does, for other things.) Are you saying it is over your head? Carebear said, I never do, but then, like I said, Im not as apt to jump on the conspiracy train. Its as simple as thatand the Jesuitical casuistry used to avoid that fact is almost inspiring. As it is, there is enough uncharitableness to go around. Biblical salvation is a free gift, without works of self-righteousness, and is Really, he should take the high road here, and then, we can discuss his theological points. I wonder, I wonder. Islam is theocratic. I want to see the real issues addressed either by Jimmy Akin or Frank Becjkwith! The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins You cant. We are to forgive not just 7 timesremember those words? LOL. Quick question, can Rome tell ou who wrote Hebrews without questions? Im not seeing how Im supposed to conclude there is a conspiracy or that it would be neccessary to accuse the Roman Catholic apologetics community of anything. How do you know that Hebrews is actually Scripture? Some other event has no relevance to this discussion. You answered how you determine what is scripture and what is not? Someone in this thread wrote: : The Manner of the Kingdom[2] Yeah, heh heh! I used to devour his works, and use them quite often against Catholic friends in apologetic discussions. I had always presumed an inferiority of the material that precluded its use in Gods plan. No, not required if you dont want your sins forgiven. What a pointless waste of time. Humility, gentleness, courtesy, charity, respect, equanimity, charity rejecting anything that smacks of superiority, ego, disdain, triumphalism, abusiveness, dismissiveness ah, theres an argument thats very, very hard to refute. Speaking of a stubborn man, He said: If he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen (Matt. I wonder if anyone will do so this time. No one called Roman Catholics murderous I wont mention what else I think you actually are, out of good manners & Christian charity. If we lack charity, then nothing we do matters in the slightest bit. mind to mean a change of lifestyle. Case in point, consider the That is a relationship of some form In Name above all names Dr. White does not look at debates as something won or lost. Ending the debate was the right thing to do. And St. Cyprian in the third century wrote: Whoever is separated from the Church is separated from the promises of Christ One cannot have God as a Father who has not the Church as his mother. It cries out for a Caliph or a Pope or a Poll-Driven Ministry, whatever will work. I am jaded when it comes to religion because there is so much of this kind of controversy. the King James Bible, but they're ok with the new Satanic Bible PERversions!!! I seem to recall even Aristotle thinking circles in logic might be OK if they were small enough. how do you determine what is Scripture and what is not??? Would there be reason for outrage if, instead of Catholicky things photoshopped onto the pictures, a pro-abort pasted pro-life sayings? As awful as it is, what he did shouldnt make anyone else treat him differently. But all available evidence is that inconsistency has nothing to do with his annoyance. By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Registrant Name:to attn. He is allowing Satan a stronghold in his ministry, and I think he will find that ministry will not be as fruitful. For those who argue Sola Scriptura with Catholics the stakes are high. If you dont, then why are you making these extended comments that have nothing to do directly with the thread? YEAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!. The intention of the Christian who admonishes is to bring life to the admonished by correcting a sin and bringing him back to Christ. Splendid stuff. In other words, I have a list of books I say was divinely inspired. The issue is the exegesis of a particular text of Scripture that is very difficult. Possibly you are a Latter- day Saint who believes the priesthood was restored by Joseph Smith in 1829 and that you have been ordained as an Aaronic priest. It boggles my mind that people pop in, make an outlandish statement and expect to be taken seriously. Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. Salvation is free,but following Christ requires all of me on the tree, burried with him, working with him daily, like Paul says. Considering his peers here though he is heads and shoulders above them. Just how reasonable, how even logical can this argument be when, in fact: Has anyone ever heard of James White making a single mistake? We dont have that luxury, since were not God. Youll get that casuistry degree yet. http://aomin.org/index.php?itemid=2185&catid=7 The first can be deleted. why I want him to address the real issues White raised to both publicly and privately distance themselves from the actions of Mr. White in posting these pictures as an act fundamentally incompatible with Christian charity. (Jimmy Akin) Or are you so wrapped up with your infatuation for James White that you didnt even pay attention to certain particulars which have clearly gone above your head! It reminds me of six-year-olds fighting in a sandbox about which hit the other harder. Tattoo Short Sleeve Tops New Poster for Alpha and Omega xi Tattoo by Jonathan at Alpha & Omega's Tattoo . Are. Unfortunately, Jimmy Akin insisted on focusing on these issues and misdirect people way from the theological issues. [2][3] He is the author of several books. Perhaps you should take the plunge too Esau. Dr. White welcomes your calls at Those pictures are not assertions, Gary. I doubt whether anyone familiar with White thinks hes an idiot in fact. We dont have to follow the Ten Commandments. How horribly uncharitiable we are! Donald Casadonte Yes, we must forgive people for calling James White an ignorant moronic idiot, deceiver, liar, fool, troll, stupid, just a general loser. Puritan Board Junior. ie urging one another to fully live the gospel in every aspect of our life. God inspires, and the canon expresses the limitation of that action. Or still more, Calvins Geneva? CareBear: One thing is certain: If you are looking for a graceful design with intricate detailing, then a tattoo like this might be it for you. Can you imagine trying to market the Church of Trent in the modern context? Could he have done it more effectively? Hows that, Gary? Please Father, give Theo Your strength to do what he himself cannot do. I have family that have been involved in authoritarian religious groups (no not Catholic), where critiquing the magisterium was forbidden and punishable. Just how have I lied, CareBear? First, this goes far beyond being sometimes offensive. This is a basic inability to conform to moral principles and standards of argumentation, which even Dawkins and Hitchens manage to do despite substantive incompetence. Say what you like but JW is an amazing man. I asked: If you have questions about Catholicism, just ask them. Something all Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant) can affirm together. He didnt just know the address. If you look any further, youll be missing our point. The locus of discussion in this thread, properly speaking, is humor, not theology, per se, except as to how it applies to Dr. Whites attempt at humor in these pictures. (pre-feeds begin 30 minutes or so before start of program). The Plurality of Elders in Perspectives on Church Government:Five Views of Church Polity, Justification in The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary, The Same Sex Controversy (with Jeff Niell), Whats With the Mutant in the Microscope? Ive made no mention of that. No. which promote a false understanding of what it Biblically means to repent. Having a Pope to declare official doctrine doesnt seem to be working out too well, so Ill take my Bible and stay in my sandbox with the different ideas concerning Baptism, and you can stay in your where the only common denominator is a guy in a hat. Dont try to dillute the issue Im debating by attempting to attribute to me other debates or issues Im not involved with or attempting to defend. /matthewsermonoutlines/Matthew662004.pdf+romans+ This does not mean that White does not know anything. Also, even the more knowledgeable anti-Catholics will recognize that there is no lack of historical, philosophical, or even Biblical support for Catholicism. Joe: Bob, youre a S***head M********** and so is your mother! Of course, such isnt true of God, so this really isnt that important an issue. Guys, Sandys our Gnostic Troll, not a sincere Bible Christian. Amazing so since theyre dead, they dont know anything??? That would be tedious. I am half-beginning to think that we do in fact deserve it. Another example of uncharitable construction of anothers thoughts. So you should be thankful for the checks-and-balances provided by those of us outside your walls. Both shows are available via Apologia Studios. That could describe you too Mary Kay. What is the man afraid of? Youll get that casuistry degree yet. In the interview Beckwith never indicated that he had ever read trent, he assumed that everyone knew he did but what he said would easily give you the impression that he hadnt read it. I gotta admit, youve made your argument. the Bible teaches, attend a church that teaches the Bible! Do you mean Mary Kay? He is not doing so, instead, we are fed with his restlessness. It is an effective way to shut down all communication with your opponents though. Not much difference there. Though I think one of those pictures may have been from a I can see that Hah! That said, it does strike me as a tempest in a teapot. his or her jumping the gun about falsely ascribing malicious intent to Catholic Answer and Even I could read Scripture in a variety of ways. Tech Name:to attn. Instead of setting aside several years for the reflection that real doctoral work affords, and from which he would have profited at ASU, White chose Columbia Evangelical Seminary. Im sorry, but no. The fact he is so angry at Catholics and Catholicism could mean his conscience is bothering him. May our merciful Lord spare us from the test. Can you imagine if these had been doctored photos of German SS holding signs saying something like, Gas those who lack charity.? And, CareBear, please dont make this out to an INFOMERCIAL FOR JAMES WHITE by AGAIN DODGING the question by the silly, evasive response: That is a horrendous thought, and much as we might dislike White or Carebear, they do not want to be disobedient to Christ. Do you even read what you write? But 716 comments!!!??? Amazing-ly repugnant and dispicable, that is! He is an accomplished debater, having engaged in more than one-hundred sixty five moderated, public debates around the world with leading proponents of Roman Catholicism, Islam, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Mormonism, as well as critics such as Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and John Shelby Spong. Alpha & Omega 115 Trucker Hat. Amphiboly. Another reason there never will be a definitive teaching on whether the salvation of those converting from OSAS will never appear is because it would involve an ecclesial body exercising authority in time regarding matters not settled in Scripture that were always true but never questioned or seriously considered until now. He is the author of more than twenty books, a professor and an accomplished debater. Bowing out. These ancient icons carry a profoundly rich cultural heritage that is automatically equipped with a variety of masculine connotations. And youre right, that does sound fallacious. Then again, being hoist on ones own petard can beuncomfortable, I imagine. To paraphrase the Westminster Catechism: Even defended Churchmouses comments which extended to the following: If you wish to follow Christ, yes, you must. And you do it using a goofy identity-hiding handle, too. He has been married to Kelli for more than thirty-seven years, and has two children, and four grandchildren. While he may be at times over the top passionate, he has never been deceptive. you called me a name-caller and labeled my actions as inappropriate and vile. CareBear Replies I realized then that I could not anymore choose what the Bible says, I had to choose to be consistent with what the church has always said: I had to choose to submit to the authority of the church. caused by the hundreds of corrupt new Bible versions, which have redefined Late have you come in this debate that has raged over the past decade or so. Nor do I need to have read everything hes said about a single topic in order to discuss portions of that topic. Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. Well if wikipedia says itit must be true. Maybe on his screen it looked smaller. Dear No Name: Your ad hominem comment had no basis. And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome. This is DISHONEST folks! Brian, Thank you for considering, if not agreeing. Carebear, No, that belongs to the one who thinks Germans are a race. Seriously, folks, ignore the Trademarked toy. ummmthat was in response to Bill912. Any more conspiracy theories you want to lay down on us, or is the cannabis plant calling? God is with us. CareBear, The egos are getting out in force, mine included. Yes shut em down before anyone notices whats actually happening. Ray, Sorry, Im not dead set on assuming the conclusion that they were wrong when I dont find them wrong in the first place. I noted today another fascinating post from Art Sippo, the Catholic lay apologist (and writer of odd pulp fiction stories). Trinity Debate Official", "Evidence for Special Creation From Scientific Evidence", Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=James_White_(theologian)&oldid=1141657590, This page was last edited on 26 February 2023, at 04:23. important in this universe than the purity of God's Words. You insist that it neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God used the councils to establish the canon of the Church. Do You Really Believe and Practice Sola Scriptura? It was inappropriate. And thanks for the personal attacks, mary, I really apprecaite you being mean to me when i havent down anything top anyone on here. So James White has managed to appeal to pagan Americas substitute for truth by playing the part of the sainted victim. We deserve the ridicule of White like good children deserve cake. As always, Gods best to my Catholic friends, The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. The Book of Shemaiah Yet you characterize this as measured and fair, and mockery of it as sophmoric. All other points aside whether the admonishing was truly needed or not is irrelevant. Also reported on the last few nights in Opelousas (which I mispronounced at the start! Thus, perhaps you see now at least a potential source of frustration for the Reformed Caucus. Barry whoot, eight bucks. Aaron, Golden Gate is ATS Accredited. Have you even paid attention to the White v. Beckwith debate??? I pointed out that sola scriptura is not in the scriptures. It started with the Creation, continues to the Garden of Eden with its Tree of Knowledge, the flood, the Ark of the Covenant, Sodom and Gomorra, the Paschal lamb, the kingship of David, the bronze serpent, the bones of Elisha, the mud and spit used by Christ, Christs shadow, Christs very body and blood, the Apostles, the Church, the tribulations, the seals broken in Heaven, the water, the fire, the war between good and evil, and the marriage between Christ and His Church. he claims implies that they are irrefutable. To which we must ask the same question, How do we know this to be Authoritatively True?, which leads us back to 1). I hurry to finish my response to the article published by Dr. Shabir Ally shortly after our debate at the University of Pretoria in South Africa in early October. There comes a time when the best thing is to simply not engage with the other person and only respond to correct any inaccuracies. Taking my word that Im right is something I wouldnt want anyone to do, thats why I back up what Im saying. Actually, could you provide the title of the book??? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt up until now. Too many people throwing around the word gnostic here. I know your heart is in the right place, but why to you feed the trolls? He subsequently made much of the fact that I allegedly struggled to answer if the Incarnation is a unique event, a clear instance of the complex question fallacy, yet when a Catholic does it (see Phils version and My Version), its a cheap debating trick. Everyone has a filter. Hes mean, mean I tell you. But all these are rejected outright by many American evangelicals by their preexisting and unbiblical gnostic philosophies. Tawhid or Trinity: Is God One or Three Divine Persons? Alternatively, depending on your preferences, you can also choose a design like this. of the Bible, which redefines the word repent in Mark 1:15 to require Tech Phone Ext. It is not a *relationship*. I do not in any way, retract that statement. missed an and Esau, Reminds me of Bilbo talking to Smaug. examine the logical dependencies. He also has two grandchildren. On the other hand, the omega symbol, which is the last letter, stands for the physicality of ones existence. Im just amused, no end, that what I suspected about that teeny particular piece of this entire mess was true. Youll get that casuistry degree yet. WHY DONT YOU ALLOW COMMENTS ON YOUR BLOG LIKE JIMMY? I pray that his humility will one day match his obvious intelligence. What was your answer? I thought Roman Catholicism had better answers to offer than that. Any idiocy, therefore, is purely tactical. Roman Catholics differ on as many issues as Protestant Evangelicals do. It smells like a prank, like someone causing trouble. Blog I hope that we can all pray for James, his walk with the Lord, and that he would embrace his Roman Catholic brothers and sisters in the Lord. This is taking the idea of overturning the temple tables a bit too far. I also discussed Dr. Kevin Youngs amazing assertion that I declined the debate challenge I offered Got started a little late so we didnt go a full hour but covered some Tweet theology, including responding to Leighton Flowers and looking at some Thomas stuff. In fact, had somebody not even mentioned the site on that thread, I wouldnt have even heard about it in the first place. Youre so mean Jesus also prayed for those who crucified him saying, Father forgive them, they know not what they do. Does the vitriol of James White compare with the great injustice done Christ? Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. Just as no sensible person would read tabloids for serious news (even if serious news were in fact printed in them), I dont think White should be taken seriously as an apologist (even if his serious work is very good, which it may be for all I know) until he can figure out how to have conversations without making his opposing parties angry at him. This applies to both sides in every situation. I forgot Jimmys blog doesnt carry formatting through paragraph breaks. Where was the big long post by Jimmy Akin condemning this fellow? ~Stu. The pictures apply to all Roman Catholics and not the select few that they are geared towards. Elaborate and vivid sleeve alpha omega tattoo. in Judaism the same type of traditions exist and they are known as Talmud (Oral Torah). Im not to apt to jump on the conspiracy train as you are. This is why the same man who wants you to call him Dr. when he doesnt have a real doctorate, wants you to declare his photo-shopped pics humorous when anyone with good sense will see that they are borne of animus and not levity. I dont see why everyone else (necessarily) has mediated knowledge. If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. James White debates Peter D. Williams at the London Oratory in St. Wilfrids Hall. Its kind of part of the package deal of being a confessing sinner. (Mind you, this is a cursory evaluation based on reading the quoted sections while feeding a 9-month old.) Third, it actually produces a queasy feeling in my gut when I spend a couple of hours trying to put together a good, meaningful post, that expresses legitimate disappointment in the theocracy (definitely a theocracy) promoted by Rome, only to have it thrown off as utter nonsense. 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