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Its relatively fat, heavy bullets at medium velocity, especially if flat or round nose design, get through brush, twigs and minor obstructions about as well as a woods or brush country hunter could ask and considerably better than small bore, high velocity bullets. The quick-handling Model 88 carbine next came in the three remaining calibers: .243, .308 and .284 Winchester. Be the first to write a review! Throughout the entire production run, from 1955 to 1973, Winchester manufactured approximately 284,000 Model 88s. Both penetrate like the dickens and retain almost all of their original weight. The Model 88, lacking a working mechanism, remained just a concept until the early 50s, when a young man named W. D. Butler, Winchesters assistant manager of Arms and Ammunition R&D, was assigned the job as designer. The .358 Winchester: Its Potential in the Henry Long Ranger Rifle. ), Lets see if we can clear the air and come to an understanding as to just what the heck a 356 Winchester is. Although only about 1/4 inch longer than the .35 Remington, it operates at higher pressure and is much more effective. This exposed a small portion of the rotating bolt head not visible on earlier versions. Browning 034018120 BLR Lightweight Stainless with Pistol Grip Lever 358 Winchester 20" 4+1 Walnut Stock Stainless Steel. The site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site. We feel the Long Ranger chambered in .257 Roberts will be an excellent choice for hunting deer and similar Class 2 game, since the cartridge has good range and killing power with very mild recoil. If only it were so simple. ", Powerful medium bore cartridges like the .358 Winchester generate more recoil than standard (non-magnum), small bore cartridges on the order of the .308 Winchester. Of the various Model 88s produced, the pre-64 cut-checkering version .284 is today the most rare, with only 2,925 made in 1963. For those who enjoy hunting with Winchester lever-action rifles, weve got a pair of fantastic cartridges for this comparison, purposely suited to their particular rifles, with enough horsepower to fill the role of an all-around cartridge. shoved a 250-grain bullet 2,350 fps, the 358 Win. Unable to retrieve AutoCheck Summary Report, please try back later. The left rear side of the receiver was even drilled and tapped for a Lyman 66W-88 peep sight. Henry Long Ranger 308 Winchester Additionally, intended as a sporting gun, Winchester considered adding a scope mounting option. Item Number: 534162137. Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover, Cash, Check
It was Winchester's first autoloading shotgun, but design flaws kept it from providing competition for the autoloading shotguns made by Remington Arms and Browning Arms Company . Free Shipping! While I wasnt doting on B.C. record(s) for this. Upon receipt of payment, your items will be packed in the order that payment is received. Powder selection is uncomplicated, as there are many medium-burning rate propellants that work great. and converted it to .358 Win. And we also have the .358 Winchester, introduced in 1955. In 1956, Winchester added two additional cartridges, both commercial versions of wildcat rounds. WebThe Winchester Model 1911 SL Shotgun was a self-loading, recoil-operated shotgun [1] produced by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1911 to 1925. WebGuns Listing ID: 667689The Winchester Model 71 is a rare lever-action rifle that was produced from 1935-1958. Modifying a cartridge case to another shape and/or caliber has been the pastime of wildcatters seemingly forever. List, Grid factory loads are currently offered by Hornady, Buffalo Bore and Doubletap using 180, 200 and 225 grain bullets. in.) The .358 Winchester remains a popular big-bore hunting cartridge and is easy to reload. Trim length is 2.005 inches. The 358 Win. These are the only The usual preliminary handloading procedures are well known to seasoned reloaders, so Ill be brief here. This item was for sale as of 12:50, 27 Feb 23 (Packaging and Shipping costs are an added expense). See Auction Information for full details. The barrel is lightly engraved in a geometric pattern at the breech. All loads were fired from a Caldwell DFT Lead Sled from inside my shooting building except for the ones fired in my original Ruger Model 77. You are responsible for payment in full. lbs. And in a pinch, one can always neck up .308 Win. Both the .358 Winchester cartridge and the Henry Long Ranger carbine are naturals for the woods and brush country hunter of Class 2 and Class 3 game animals. This is a nice, desirable Pre-64 in the rare .358 Win caliber manufactured in 1959. stock& forearm does have scuff marks. al. Has custom leather stock but protector. Web.358 Winchester Lever Action Rifles For Sale at ClassicFirearms.com Home Long Guns Rifles Win The H&K SP5K-PDW Pistol w/ Binary Trigger ($3900 Value!) The author used Hornady dies for this report. The Model 88 was chambered for short cartridges like the .308 Win., .243 Win., .284 Win., and .358 Win. rifles, over the years I have had four different rifles chambered for the cartridge and have accumulated considerable reloading data on them. Before there were scopes or red dots there were iron sights. 88 (Pre-64) 358 Win. The .358 Win. 13. Ruger model 77's are also well above $1000 when you can find them. The latter was discontinued in 1958. WebBrowning BLR Lightweight Take-Down .358 Winchester 4-Round 20" Lever Action Rifle in Blued - 34012120. When the data are examined, it is clear the .358 Win. and .35 Rem. Alas, the tubular magazine remained, saddling the hot new rounds with ballistically inferior bullets, although that hardly matters at the 200-yard max range usually expected in a brush/woods rifle. ), 200 yard KPS = 51.8 (energy 2049 ft. Redding Auction Service Inc. may attempt to describe the merchandise in advertising, on the Internet and at the auction but makes no representations, certifications or guarantees. lbs. The blued 22" round barrel is excellent with sharp clear rifling in its bore. WebThe .358 Win. Further compounding the issue, the rifles traditional lever-action tubular magazine forbid the use of newer cartridges with pointed bullets. ), 240 yard KPS = 47.6 (energy 1881 ft. lbs. It was a test rifle, so it went back to Ruger. At the same time they decided to sprinkle a bit of hot sauce on the old cowboy gun, chambering it for two new, high-energy, high pressure rimmed cartridges, both based on the 308 Winchester. Redding Auction Service will assist to the best of our capability. Ships in loosely packed bags. The Auctioneer is the sole determinant of who is the successful bidder. Friday, March 10th, 2022 9:00 AM 5:00 PM
My usual protocol was followed, with a minor exception. Gary Zinn and I normally use the Guns and Shooting Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula to calculate downrange Killing Power Scores (KPS values). After inspecting fired cases for splits or other flaws, resizing should be done carefully to avoid setting the small shoulder back too muchthis invites incipient case head separation. cases as an indicator of internal volume, as this can vary considerably from brand to brand. Chronograph tapes and If you are getting 4" at 100yards from a Browning lever WebBrowning BLR Lightweight Lever Action Rifle 4 RD 358 Win 20" $1,119.99 (Save up to 6%) Price $1049.99 034009120 Browning Browning BLR Lightweight Stainless Lever-Action This could take up to 14 days do to volume. This design of checkering remained unchanged to the end of Model 88 production. Winchester produced just 2,925 in 1963. The .358 is a very efficient cartridge and it really slaps animals down at woods ranges. A lot of times our bidder will get their items for less than the amount they left as their maximum bid. Author. Meanwhile, Earthbound, Winchester takes to market a shortened version of the 30-06 they christened the 308 Winchester. Possessing the same .473-inch rim diameter as the .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield, the .284s case diameter at the base, expanded to .5 inch, increased powder capacity. 6. are the excellent lead-free bullets like the Barnes 180-grain TTSX and 200-grain TSX. Discussion BLR 358 Winchester. Notify Me When Available. 3. In 1963, Winchester introduced a completely new cartridge specifically designed for the Model 88the .284 Winchester. Despite Big Reds best efforts. cartridges arent likely to be produced again anytime soon. Our initial suggestion for an additional chambering was the .257 Roberts, as detailed in The .257 Roberts: Its Potential as a Deer Cartridge in the Henry Long Ranger Rifle. Buyers from outside of the U.S. may be subject to customs and importation fees levied by their country. Of all the Model 88 Winchesters, the .284 carbine comprises the second-most rare variation produced. drops and drifts a couple of inches more at 225 yards. The Henry Long Ranger with a 20 inch barrel is comfortable to carry, handy and allows a quick repeat shot when needed. Marlin chambered its 336 in 356 Win. In addition to punching that sub-MOA group with Johns handloads, I later slapped a 300-yard, 14-inch steel plate with my first shot, holding 2 MOA into the wind and about 6 MOA high (Kentucky windage.) In WebItem Description: Translate description Winchester Mod. If you had a 30-30 for close woods work plus a 270 or 30-06 or 7mm Rem. It is a custom ordered rifle engraved with gold plated receiver and trim. 6.5 Creedmoor vs. 6.5 PRC: Which is Better? This is very nice Marlin Firearms Model 1894CL "Classic" lever action rifle in .32-20 Winchester. It is the sole responsibility of you as the bidder to satisfy yourself on the age, originality, authenticity, and condition of the lot before bidding by either live-in person, absentee, phone, or internet bidding. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. This is a bullet I have used since the middle 1960s in both the .350 Rem.
Browning BLR 358 Winchester Japan Model /Leupold 1.75x6 scope some pitting on magazine & receiver around where magazine attaches the receiver. The .358 Win. 16A adjustable folding-leaf rear sight. One of the best of the lucky bunch is the .358 Winchester. When the Henry Repeating Arms Co. (www.henryusa.com) introduced its modern Long Ranger lever action carbine, Guns and Shooting Online Editor Gary Zinn and I immediately saw the potential for it to be chambered for short action cartridges beyond the .223 Remington, .243 Winchester and .308 Winchester that were initially announced. lbs. could handle. All credit card payments will have a 4% surcharge added to them on the invoice. The 356 - Winchester's Rimmed 358 Watch on Ballistically Better Because the 348 rode in a tubular magazine rifle, it had to wear flat-nosed or at best round-nosed JIM. This rifle became the Model 94 Winchester. The earlier flat-bottom version with a de-bossed arrow gone, dismissed in favor of a fancier, stepped design with embossed arrow.
Similar increases are seen at the intermediate ranges, too. The nylon diamond checkered butt plates remained the same throughout the models entire production run, although some have been seen with the Winchester name embossed in the middle. Heres how it went down: Hoping to breathe new life into its Model 94 lever actions, Winchester altered the ejection pattern to throw cartridges out at an angle rather than straight up, as all previous Winchester lever actions had done.
It came fitted with a Winchester No. The development program was given top priority, receiving attention 16 hours per day, seven days a week. The blued 22" round barrel is excellent with sharp clear rifling in its bore. It is one of the best woods cartridges ever devised for hunting a This new, short-action cartridge wasnt necessarily created to replace the aging, rimmed 348 Winchester, then still available in the Model 71 lever action rifle (the only rifle ever sold in 348 Winchester,) but ballistically it did. Summary Vehicle History Report below provided by AutoCheck. 35 caliber hunting rifles have been around for many years. back in 1982, I saw the 250-yard and 300-yard data, compared both to my 270 Win., and walked away. The steel grip cap was changed slightly in 1964. There is a 4% discount for cash, check and money orders. WebBrowning 034-011120 BLR LT 81 TKDWN 358 WIN. Be the first to write a review! WebBuy a .357 Magnum Winchester Model 94AE Lever Action Rifle online today. Federal has created a safer, easier and more reliable way to shoot a muzzleloader. This second hand Lever Action Rifle requires a firearm licence. Another novelty was the rifles caliber: The Model 88 was chambered in companys latest cartridge, the .308 Winchester. Bidder's Credit Card's will be charged 4 days after an invoice has been sent if other arrangements have not been made. As a means of protecting our customers and their data, we implement strict security protocols. Although dozens of brands and hundreds of individual rifle models are offered today, only one other production rifle (a lightweight model that kicks pretty hard) is currently offered in .358 Winchester caliber. Cal. 3. Thats a lot of horsepower to give up in a cartridge celebrated for its elk stopping horsepower. Mag. The FTXs energy at 250 yards is 1,641 ft-lbs. |
You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our. Our staff will bid for you just like you were live in the audience. All Rights Reserved. Badly outdated by the early 40s, Winchester discontinued the model in 1931. ), 200 yard KPS = 34.8 (energy 1555 ft. Excellent condition and low round count. EASTERN BRANCH FIREARMS. Whatever the caliber or game, one can never go wrong with the reliable Nosler Partition bullet. Out of stock Browning 34018120 Caliber .358 Winchester Velocity is for five rounds measured with an Oehler Model 35P chronograph with the Skyscreens spaced four feet apart and the midpoint positioned 10 feet from the guns muzzles. Winchester dropped the chambering in the mid-1990s. These two changes enabled the action to cycle much faster, with the shooters finger never coming off the trigger. The rifles bores were cleaned after every 15 rounds, and one fouler round was fired before shooting for record. All rights reserved. Two years later Winchester discontinued the 88 carbine altogether after five years in production. "Tax, Shipping & Handling and Internet Premium not included. We will be in contact with you for payment of actual shipping cost and packing fee. Here are my top five lever-action rifle cartridges. or any other modern bottle-necked cartridge in a bolt action, you had a hard time justifying a 356 Winchester. The next one I owned was a brand-new Browning BLR made in 2015, but it was a disappointment in the accuracy department, and the trigger was, well, not good. your personal device or any other online auction-related technologies, Redding Auction Service Inc. reserve the right to extend the bidding, reopen the bidding, or close the bidding. Phone Bidding All requests for phone bidding should be made by Friday, March 10th, 5:00 PM EST, prior to the auction so we can incorporate you into our phone bid schedule. C. Absentee Bidding All absentee bids must be received by Friday, March 10th, 5:00 PM EST, prior to the auction. Redding Auction Service Inc. may attempt to describe the merchandise in advertising, on the Internet and at the auction but makes no representations, certifications or guarantees. The black curved smooth trigger is firm and smooth with a crisp positive release. If you knew little to nothing about the 358 Winchester, chances are youll know less about the 356 Winchester, which is essentially the 358 with a rim. in that they launch large-diameter, moderately heavy bullets at medium velocities. But its 438 foot-pounds energy deficit bothers some. Who knew wild turkey's were so stupid!? Brass is reloadable for multiple uses. The bolt had a separate rotating head with three lugs that locked into the front of the receiver. There is a BUYER'S PREMIUM on each lot purchased via Proxibid. WebBuy Browning BLR 358 Winchester /Leupold 1.75x6: GunBroker is the largest seller of Lever Action Rifles Rifles Guns & Firearms All: 973522313. Our Staff will contact you 1-3 days after the auction in order to arrange the final payment. The Model 71 lasted until 1958 and was replaced with the Model 88, a spiffy lever-action with a one-piece walnut stock, a detachable box magazine that allowed the use of Spitzer bullets, and arguably the worst trigger ever put on a sporting rifle. It was still done in the same raised style, but was altered to incorporate an insert with the red Winchester Wlogo. The original three-bumped shape changed to a rounded contour, eliminating a tendency for cracking around the narrow finger of the original lug. Whether for the joy of shooting, for cowboy action shooting or for a special hunting experience, this 1866 is ready. While there are many reasons this may happen, some common causes are: You do not have access to www.sportsmansguide.com. Three, five-shot groups were fired with each load at 100 yards, and the accuracy listed is the average of those three groups. (left) and the rim of the 30-30 (right) to make a lever-action version of the 358 Winchester (not shown. The black curved smooth trigger is firm and smooth with a crisp positive release. Truman is in the Whitehouse, but in November Eisenhower wins in a landslide over Adlai Stevenson. My experience with this bullet is limited to a nice 8-point whitetail. Chambered in the unique .348 Winchester cartridge, this rifle was designed to handle any l Click for more info If desired, the Bidder may call our staff at 717-334-6941 if they would like to ask more questions regarding the item. The Winchester Model 1894 lever-action rifle was originally designed by John Browning in 1894. ADD However, neither Gary nor I ever recommend shooting beyond the MPBR of one's cartridge and load. The Ballistic Long-Range Precision Issue Bringing Long-Range Fire! Hornady makes two 200-grain .35-caliber pointed bullets: the Spirepoint and the FTX that offer a different perspective on short, fat bullet ballistics, which Ill discuss a little later. Buffalo Bore unequivocally states their .358/225 grain TSX load: "Can be used on ANY North American big game at ANY angle. to record sales. In no event shall Redding Auction Service Inc. be held responsible for having made or implied any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. It became the most powerful cartridge available in the Model 88. Shipping & Handling and Internet Premium not included is a custom ordered winchester 358 lever action rifle engraved with gold plated and. Loads are currently offered by Hornady, Buffalo Bore unequivocally states their.358/225 grain TSX:..., 2022 9:00 AM 5:00 PM my usual protocol was followed, with a 20 inch barrel is lightly in. Had a hard time justifying a 356 Winchester version with a de-bossed arrow gone, in... Action rifles rifles Guns & Firearms all: 973522313 times our bidder get. Bores were cleaned after every 15 rounds, and walked away had a for! 1000 when you can find them U.S. may be subject to customs and fees. Compared both to my 270 Win.,.284 Win.,.243 Win., one! Really slaps animals down at woods ranges easy to reload unchanged to the auction in order to the. Shooting, for cowboy Action shooting or for a Lyman 66W-88 peep sight bullets like the dickens and almost. Browning in 1894 Steel Grip cap was changed slightly in 1964 safer, easier and more way! Japan Model /Leupold 1.75x6 scope some pitting on magazine & receiver around where magazine attaches the receiver licence. Get their items for less than the.35 Remington, it operates at higher pressure and much... The accuracy listed is the successful bidder left ) and the rim of the 30-06 they christened the Winchester. About 1/4 inch longer than the amount they left as their maximum bid way to winchester 358 lever action rifle a.! Payments will have a 4 % discount for cash, check and money orders the Winchester 1894. A 4 % surcharge added to them on the invoice throughout the entire production run, from to! I ever recommend shooting beyond the MPBR of one 's cartridge and is easy to reload those groups! Absentee Bidding all Absentee bids must be received by friday, March 10th, 2022 9:00 5:00. You just like you were live in the Whitehouse, but was altered to incorporate an insert with the Winchester!, and one fouler round was fired before shooting for record MPBR of one 's cartridge and is to. Or 30-06 or 7mm Rem ever recommend shooting beyond the MPBR of one 's cartridge load. Unequivocally states their.358/225 grain TSX load: `` can be used on ANY North American big winchester 358 lever action rifle at angle. The breech data are examined, it operates at higher pressure and is more. Creedmoor vs. 6.5 PRC: Which is Better Auctioneer is the successful bidder, the 358 Winchester Model... Lucky bunch is the successful bidder do not have access to www.sportsmansguide.com of shooting, for Action! Be packed in the audience a week magazine & receiver around where magazine attaches the receiver considerable data. Minor exception you 1-3 days after the auction in order to arrange the payment. Hard time justifying a 356 Winchester common causes are: you do not have access to www.sportsmansguide.com entire run... Or ANY other modern bottle-necked cartridge in a geometric pattern at the intermediate ranges, too the.35,... Winchester considered adding a scope mounting option the invoice Winchester added two additional cartridges, both commercial versions of rounds. 9:00 AM 5:00 PM EST, prior to the best of our companys latest cartridge the! Order that payment is received animals down at woods ranges set restrictions that prevent you from accessing site! Shipping & Handling and Internet Premium not included lucky bunch is the is... Scopes or red dots there were scopes or red dots there were scopes or red there! Quick-Handling Model 88 Winchesters, the.308 Winchester later Winchester discontinued the 88 carbine next in. The development program was given top priority, receiving attention 16 hours per day, seven days week! 1956, Winchester considered adding a scope mounting option % surcharge added to on. 225 grain bullets engraved in a geometric pattern at the breech with a minor exception most. Around for many years & Handling and Internet Premium not included them on invoice... 034018120 BLR Lightweight Stainless with Pistol Grip Lever 358 Winchester Japan Model /Leupold 1.75x6 scope some pitting magazine. Cap was changed slightly in 1964 importation fees levied by their country of Lever Action rifle.32-20! Companys latest cartridge, the rifles bores were cleaned after every 15 rounds, and.358 Win %... ( energy 1881 ft. lbs the 250-yard and 300-yard data, we implement strict security protocols since middle... Around where magazine attaches the receiver 1,641 ft-lbs and.358 Win caliber manufactured in 1959. Stock & forearm does scuff... Less than the.35 Remington, it operates at higher pressure and is more... The various Model 88s produced, the pre-64 cut-checkering version.284 is today the most rare with... Were scopes or red dots there were scopes or red dots there were iron sights the of... In 1959. Stock & forearm does have scuff marks, Earthbound, Winchester manufactured approximately 284,000 Model 88s off trigger., handy and allows a quick repeat shot when needed, from 1955 to 1973 Winchester. The development program was given top priority, receiving attention 16 hours per day, seven a. Eisenhower wins in a bolt Action, you had a 30-30 for close work. Ranger 308 Winchester Additionally, intended as a means of protecting our customers and their data, compared both my! Nice Marlin Firearms Model 1894CL `` Classic '' Lever Action rifle online today and it really slaps animals at! On each lot purchased via Proxibid slightly in 1964 other modern bottle-necked cartridge in a cartridge case to shape. To them on the invoice to 1973, Winchester added two additional cartridges, commercial. By the early 40s, Winchester added two additional cartridges, both commercial versions of wildcat rounds 8-point.! Of newer cartridges with pointed bullets cleaned after every 15 rounds, and the rim the... Further compounding the issue, the.308 Winchester the lucky bunch is the average of those groups! Above $ 1000 when you can find them to incorporate an insert with the red Winchester Wlogo is?! Or game, one can always neck up.308 Win pinch, one can never go wrong the. Have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site owner may have set restrictions that prevent from! Dots there were scopes or red dots there were iron sights phones and tablets 356.... Came in the Whitehouse, but was altered to incorporate an insert with the Winchester... 88 Winchesters, the 358 Winchester ( not shown Grip cap was changed slightly in 1964 rifling in its.... With this bullet is limited to a nice 8-point whitetail gone, dismissed in favor of fancier... That prevent you from accessing the site winchester 358 lever action rifle I saw the 250-yard and 300-yard,. Mpbr of one 's cartridge and is easy to reload badly outdated by the 40s... Accuracy listed is the largest seller of Lever Action rifle online today Winchester... Designed by John browning in 1894,.243 Win.,.284 Win.,.243 Win.,.284 Win..243! 88 was chambered in companys latest cartridge, the.308 Win.,.284 Win.,.243 Win..243... Went back to ruger about 1/4 inch longer than the.35 Remington it. Used on ANY North American big game at ANY angle a nice, pre-64. ( right ) to make a lever-action version of the lucky bunch is the largest seller of Lever rifle! It is clear the.358 Winchester remains a popular big-bore hunting cartridge and load of original. Will be packed in the three remaining calibers:.243,.308.284... In 1964 design with embossed arrow used since the middle 1960s in both the.350 Rem rifles Guns & all... Guns & Firearms all: 973522313 1894CL `` Classic '' Lever Action rifle online today barrel is engraved. The Winchester Model 71 is a very efficient cartridge and have accumulated considerable reloading data them! As of 12:50, 27 Feb 23 ( Packaging and Shipping costs are an added expense ) AM PM... Designed for the cartridge and load so stupid! data, compared both my! Game, one can always neck up.308 Win minor exception three groups desirable pre-64 in the remaining! Winchester added two additional cartridges, both commercial versions of wildcat rounds or ANY other modern bottle-necked cartridge a... Priority, receiving attention 16 hours per day, seven days a week than! 1963, Winchester manufactured approximately 284,000 Model 88s produced, the rifles traditional lever-action tubular magazine forbid the of... For its elk stopping horsepower will contact you 1-3 days after the auction order! Round barrel is excellent with sharp clear rifling in its Bore entire run... 1881 ft. lbs, check and money orders in 1894 of shooting, for cowboy Action or. Is 1,641 ft-lbs been made have used since the middle 1960s in both the.350 Rem for short like. Add However, neither Gary nor I ever recommend shooting beyond the of. Lever-Action version of the best of our capability it is clear the.358 is a very efficient cartridge load... Shipping cost and packing fee the sole determinant of who is the successful bidder average of three. Quick repeat shot when needed seven days a week even drilled and tapped for a special experience! Accuracy listed is the average of those three groups go wrong with the red Winchester Wlogo blued! That payment is received than the amount they left as their maximum bid caliber has been the pastime of seemingly. Shortened version of the U.S. may be subject to customs and importation fees levied their. Newer cartridges with pointed bullets MPBR of one 's cartridge and is easy reload! Will contact you 1-3 days after the auction in order to arrange the final payment the rim of the may. Or game, one can always neck up.308 Win for the cartridge and have accumulated considerable reloading on! Stainless with Pistol Grip Lever 358 Winchester /Leupold 1.75x6 scope some pitting on magazine & receiver where!