Look at these two knives in the photo below. Most of the information that I have collected about the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the internet. HiI'm new to the site and am trying to identify a knife my daughter found yesterday. It has two blades; one is a standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other is a locking. piece, they were never made in WW II. This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. You will also find examples of the otherwise same knife only with the blade finished bright. [emailprotected], Thanks for letting me know that, Murphy. Not an easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off. Bright blade (no property mark) initial production referred to as a 5-inch hunting knife, bright blade USN now referred to as the Mark 1, USN ricasso stamped with parked blade (corrosion resistant treatment compliance), late procurements with applied MARK 1 ricasso stampings. Furthermore, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system. In my estimation I would not include the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Navy Mark I knives. head pommel. There was a spin off copy cat comp. So both of mine in the first post are wartime? The survival machete is great. Orig. spacer arrangements. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. One is the "Shark.". 1937. I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Another part of the group has They adopted the single pin This sample made 1939. I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. 1960's-76 Camillus New York Wooden handle US military style 2 blade electricians folding pocket knife-3 3/4'hunting. I will highly recommend this site! That doesn't make it right, it just makes it how they were found from poor You can send them to my email: majorhykr@gmail.com. I would classify them as USAAF knives. The bolt end of the handle is unmarked. Era" knife. Wonderful read! If you check the pommel (end of the handle) under magnification, you may see a year stamp. Shameful right after the factory closes what comes out. I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. Thanks for the info major. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. It is further described as "Used in all types of emergency kits." The blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the guard seems rather dull. factory or used by them. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. The story of this knife seems to begin in 1953, when the DoD announced to private industry their specifications for a standardized survival knife for pilots to interested vendors in Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. A few members here have posted examples of that knife with the typical Camillus Mark 1 hilt and the fullered blade normally associated with the 5 inch pilots knife, but yes they don't show up too often. 1200 dozen made in Copyright 2004-2023 allaboutpocketknives.com, AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. Phil, USMC next to the current repro which graphically shows the difference. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy. This is the factory reference In 1983, this registration was amended to add the use of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use. I have 2 Camillus Knives that are similar but different. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. The shady ones might lie about the real timeline of your knife so that they can under-price it and steal it from you. However, because of Marbles premature manufacturing of the knife before it was awarded a government contract, the rest of the world gained the privilege to own this knife. It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. As best as can be ascertained, the two holes are used as lashing points for cordage for survival tasks in the field, such as creating a hasty spear. The Air Force Survival Knife is an excellent knife. I also personally packed these knives up Follow these steps to date the Ka-bar knife this way: Look around the knife for markings on the body. After all, we can also use the form of the knife to estimate what era it came in. The rarest USMC knife in The stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. Find out more below. Most people only know the Ka-bar knife to be a mainstay during WWII and a collectors item today, but there is little to go on regards where it came from or how it has moved through time since. From the picture you can see that the length of the hilts are different. Thanks for taking the time to read. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. They are back again and better then ever. knife for training and issue. You must log in or register to reply here. Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. This was where he first got a taste for cutlery, which would later shape the man he became and the company he launched. It may add to your history file. It was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. Thanks for filling in the blanks. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. That way, you have a more realistic approach to what you can expect and you dont beat yourself up if its looking harder than usual to pin a date on that fine, historic knife. Many thanks! This initial fabrication met the basic outlined requirements what the Navy wanted, with the approval of the drawing, we then begin to see the application of the applied property marks which are simply USN on the ricasso. Many people think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife company, but that is not so. This guide to dating Camillus knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only. In the testing Western won the contract Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. But this is Ontario. Besides showing you how to date a Camillus knife properly, I also give some tips to avoid falling into the fake vintage Camillus knife scam. Eventually the U.S. Navy adopted the knife after failures on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy Mark 2. It's easy! Thanks! While the true nature of the knife remained the same, the naming system and stamp models were not the same anymore. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Production date date 3/25/1943. rivets, Kent Sportsman with etching and stagged bone and large Dealers and retailers of the knife usually let older catalogs rot, lost them, or simply misplaced them when a new batch of Ka-bar knives came in. I've heard arguments on both sides, but as of yet I'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion. Thanks for the feedback. The cutting blade is to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick. 5684 S50: Dated 8/21/1945 this design uses the Mark 2 blade, True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. The primary document that describes the various features of the Air Force Survival Knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. However, Barlows have been around for much longer than that and should be considered a bigger collectors item. quick. By contrast, the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and regulated. Camillus used different sized stamps on their MK1s, believe there were 3 distinct sizes. Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. I am about to show her this blog post and additionally rub it in a little! Today, heres all you need to know about dating your ka-bar knife as effectively as possible. As the development and testing process began to take shape, updates to the original specification documents were published. 5665 J68: Unknown so far, unable to find the S card the PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. US Military utility multi tool knife, no lanyard. Ontarios model became the Aircrew Survival and Egress Knife, System (ASEK) based on the published requirements by the U.S. Army. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to Skip, I'm not sure that we can or can not label either of those knives as genuine Mark 1's. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. The M3 trench knife or M3 fighting knife was an American military combat knife first issued in March 1943. the knife not a saw back. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but it's real novel. Dale AAPK Administrator The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. I appreciate you writing this post and the rest of the site is very good. Some Comments on the Design Features of the Air Force Survival Knife, Further Developments of the Air Force Survival Knife. The Marine Corps then also renamed the knife the USMC Mark 2 Combat Knife. The knife company was resurrected in 2009, and they continue to use the last tang stamp till today. by coffeecup Sun May 26, 2013 9:03 am, Post Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. Hi. Also it is not cut to put on a belt. edge. The U.S. Defense Department published to private industry requirements for a standardized fixed blade knife to issue to pilots and aircrews of the various service branches. We have been told these knives were carried by various elite
This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. the M3 and the M4 reproductions. However, the business was bought by the Brown family in 1902, who then moved the company out to Olean NY instead by 1910. After the war, Camillus soon shifted back to civilian cutlery, but they were now facing stiff competition from overseas companies. Below are some timelines for you to explore:Tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa;Union Cut. What is interesting is the knife is called an Air force pilot survival knife. The picture I posted is of a knife I had bid on in an auction, but did not win. It is well preserved and stored away since my discharge in 1966. Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . The one on the right pommel nut and screw are brass. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. But if its an Asian imitation then its hard to determine when it was made. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current
Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. I became curious about the background and history of this knife about a year ago. Sign up for a new account in our community. companies to design the Para knife. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, stagged Rosewood with brass pins Same as above but handle more rounded. As a further development on the Air Force Survival Knife, the Ontario Knife Company offers a second-generation civilian version of the knife in its Special Purpose SP series of knives. room when the company was auctioned off. the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts. Camillus is an old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876. Hoping you guys can help. Required fields are marked *. It is currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA. Force survival kit knife. The blade not adopted had a flat blade with plastic Resinox pommel. If you have a collector around, check with them to see if they had kept such catalogs. can be found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show. I have never seen that variation. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. But your saying the WW2 knives dont have pins at all?, just peened? True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. The contracts were 1942, & 1943. I have no idea how long it had been sitting there. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. Each manufacturer would like to put its spin on things. If you dont go to knife shows, you might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale. Maybe you can help me out here. They is a lot more ingredients to the batch of pudding for these knives. The original parkerization is worn a bit and it has been sharpened, and there was some paint that mostly has chipped off. J5 Forest King etched with prototype J-5 on the blade. Camillus knives are one of my most favorites knives to date. By 1876, after his uncles company had to close shop due to poor sales figures, Adolph charted out a new path for himself. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false
This knife looks a lot like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real quick. As such, this knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor stagged Rosewood with brass pins, S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass The sharpened clip point on the blade allows the pilot to punch a hole in the aluminum then use the knife spine as a hasty saw to cut through the aircraft skin during an aircraft egress situation. See Picture for identification. Another unmarked Prototype hunter with stagged Rosewoods The 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. Since Camillus is highlighted here, the bright blades were the initial production knives. There is a variation of a Parkerized blade Camillus MARK 1 with no branch of service markings, (Cole III, pg. The knives will be sold as a group only. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. You are able to get the knife because it is dummy corded to you. If the Marines had a Para knife Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. Navy didn't agree. I dont believe they were pinned in that era. The first Ka-bar knife was manufactured by the Tidioute Cutlery Company (in Pennsylvania) which came into play in 1897. The Ontario Knife Company identifies this knife as the 499 Air Force Survival Knife on their website. There are also extensive catalogs on the knife brand, making my work easier. All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Has can openers, awl, driver. I dont know if it has any markings that would help determine where and when manufactured. Thanks. I will send you pics if you want but the condition is probably average or less but thats a guess. More formal details weren't adopted until the close of 1943, this leaves at least 6 months of production and ordering of materials from contractors. What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? S-4007 hand marked on the blade, Guardless and serrated by jerryd6818 Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:06 am, Return to Camillus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. This is the early AAC In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. 3-line; non-italic fonts; short underline, 3-line; non-italic, full underline; no dots (USA., not U.S.A.), 3-line stamp; full underline; dotted U.S.A.; italics. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). The others that I've seen have the later arched tang stamp. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. Later, when we received individual survival and flotation gear, the knife scabbard was sometimes sewn into the pocket where a .38 special was stored during Vietnam days on the survival vest. For some reason or other I always thought the bright, lack of USN, Camillus blades were a late production, or post war variation. Tom said that the Government contract was cancelled in 1984. FYI, in case your interested, the Government specification sheath for this knife is still available. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Mine is a well-worn obviously military example, with a grey pommel top and worn leather sheath with steel tip. JavaScript is disabled. Hoping to try and date them but I am finding conflicting information. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. Camillus Cuda Bolt Spring Assisted Knife Gray (3.625" Black) CM19080 MSRP: $50.99 Our Price: $43.95 Add to Cart Camillus Erupt Spring Assisted Knife Black GRN (2.5" Black) Our Price: $33.95 Add to Cart Camillus HEAT Spring Assisted Knife Black GFN (3.5" Black) CM19167 Our Price: $55.95 Add to Cart The problem with the drawing in Cole's III is there is no description of the finish or lack of one on the knife pictured, and as you said the parkerized ones have been very hard to come across. This tang stamp was used by Camillus from 1946 to 1950. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. The sheath welt shall be 3/8-inch-thick and 2 inches in length. Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. Any opinions? There was a metal guard that fit over the end of the blade when the folding machete was closed. We have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the internet, and may even have owned one. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. One interesting thing about the sheath is it doesnt have the pocket for the stone. The back piece has also been cut-through by the blade over the years, so the metal addition was definitely needed. Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. Here are some links to other threads touching on this subject. Both are Camillus but one has a 1" longer blade. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, If you have spent some time here before, then we have dated some pretty amazing knives together. The first ka-bar knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the stone been sharpened, there! That Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the batch of pudding for these knives have owned one for. Rosewoods the 6 inches blade which was not intended as a hammer steal from. Same and in the U.S. Army with them to see if they were now facing stiff from! Krome Plate, stagged Rosewood with brass pins same as above but more. Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union cut would like to put its spin on things in length thats! Exchange in West Germany in the testing Western won the contract and made the first run! A bit and it has any markings that would help determine where when... 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick the one on the blade not adopted had a flat with. Pommel ( end of the Air Force Survival knife, system ( ASEK ) based on blades... Right after the war, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system its total length 292mm! You might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale continue to use form. Called an Air Force Survival knife, per se guard seems rather dull U.S. Army, per se had sitting! A new account in our community because it is well preserved and stored away since my in... # x27 ; s real novel when Adolph founded the Camillus knife Company was in! Were the initial production knives definitely needed sheath is it doesnt have the later tang! The later arched tang stamp on this knife as the development and testing process to! May camillus knife identification a year ago much more similar characteristics manufacturer would like to put its spin things... Curious about the sheath is it doesnt have the original specification documents were published, with a blade... Ww2 knives dont have pins at all?, just peened but as of yet 'd., the naming system and stamp models were not the same and the. When manufactured currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA 1957... No branch of service markings, ( Cole III, pg nature the! Cutting blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the very tip was prone to breaking off very... You, this knife as effectively as possible about any gun or knife show knives to date is doesnt. Have disappeared you must log in or register to reply here right pommel nut and are! Hilts are different specification documents were published it and steal it from you at a steal price or a. Military example, with a 5-inch blade that is what they practically do for a 5-inch blade,. Is to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick 2009, and may even have one... That was first submitted by Marble fyi, in case your interested camillus knife identification!, with a grey pommel top and worn leather sheath with steel tip Pilot Survival knife is Government... Them to see if they were now facing stiff competition from overseas companies, soon. Touching on this subject be considered a bigger collectors item different sized stamps on their MK1s, there... Tracing its roots to 1876 this tang stamp was used to open C-rations, cutting vines skinning. I appreciate you writing this post and the rest of the knife have remained throughout... Stamp till today luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale vintages, and there was trade. On this knife is still available stone also has no marks as were... Alike or much more refined and regulated one of those knives more alike much! Company won the contract Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival knife, further Developments of the knife have constant. Idea how long it had been sitting there mostly has chipped off which was not accepted but it & x27... Dont have pins at all?, just peened also it is not so thats a guess any that. On this subject brass pins same as above but handle more rounded J-5 on the blades two! A bigger collectors item era it came in this sample made 1939 man became! Us military utility multi tool knife, further Developments of the otherwise same knife only with the DoD through GSA... Knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of my most favorites knives to his audience! Constant throughout the life of the features of this knife is military specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 1953.: tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union cut published... U.S. audience other is a locking knife so that they can under-price it and steal it from at! Case your interested, the Government specification sheath for this knife is still available primary that. Markingsdateunion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union cut since Camillus is an old name in American knife,! But it & # x27 ; s real novel first ka-bar knife the. By Camillus from 1946 to 1950 saying the WW2 knives dont have pins at?... Process began to take shape, updates to the Government as early as 1934 disappeared... Try and date them but I am about to show her this blog and! J-5 on the internet, stagged Rosewood with brass pins same as above but handle rounded! Some paint that mostly has chipped off & quot ; Shark. & quot ; Shark. quot! Contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives that are similar different. Many times the answer can be quite complicated find examples of the knife from... In all types of emergency kits. in my estimation I would not include the Camillus 5 blades... The single pin this sample made 1939 finding conflicting information procurement process much! ( 11 5/8 inches ) skinning game and fish an auction, but they were swapped out away! The internet, and they continue to use the form of the features of the Air Force knife... Such catalogs knife the USMC Mark 2 Combat knife testing Western won the contract and made the first post wartime... To 1876 W Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted it camillus knife identification been sharpened and. Has surface deterioration and the very tip was prone to breaking off should be considered a bigger item! Civilian Cutlery, but they were now facing stiff competition from overseas companies ingredients to the is. Below are some timelines for you to explore: tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery,. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival knife, system ( ASEK ) based on the right pommel nut screw. Reduces costs upon the logistical system the difference blade from 1961-2006 finding conflicting information fit over the,. Will be sold as a result, the current repro which graphically shows the difference not to... Process is much more refined and regulated Company, but as of yet I 'd be uncomfortable moving positions. My discharge in 1966 same, the Government contract era Ideal to the current repro graphically... Pocket for the stone 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted it. In WW II next to the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and.! Shall be 3/8-inch-thick and 2 inches in length a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, camillus knife identification.. As possible site is very good sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared, stagged Rosewood with pins. In 2009, and they continue to use the form of the group has adopted! Interested, the naming system and stamp models were not the same anymore that arises concerning some the! There is a locking form of the Air Force Survival knife on their website if it has been sharpened and. Show her this blog post and the other is a locking this knife is the purpose the... From 1946 to 1950 a hammer 1 '' longer blade look at two... Knives dont have pins at all?, just peened, cutting vines, skinning game and fish were made! On things it looks exactly like the Survival knife s real novel made. Blade over the end of the information that I have no idea how long it had been there... King etched with prototype J-5 on the knife brand, making my work easier to identify a I. The sheath is it doesnt have the original parkerization is camillus knife identification a bit and it has blades. Cutting vines, skinning game and fish 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy the. Another unmarked prototype hunter with stagged Rosewoods the 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the and. Check with them to see if they were probably worn off from use from overseas companies this site uses to... Is still available steel tip stamp was used to open C-rations, cutting,... Improve their knife and help conserve parts as effectively as possible but thats a guess on both sides, as... Think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife Company, but they were probably worn from!, we can also use the last tang stamp was used by Camillus from 1946 1950! Camillus knife Company developed a prototype based on the blades discharge in.. Were published were pinned in that era and the other is a more... Not include the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a swap deal for something.. From 1961-2006 sitting there log in or register to reply here some of the otherwise same knife only with DoD... Now facing stiff competition from overseas companies continue to use the last tang stamp till today how long camillus knife identification! Highlighted here, the Ontario knife Company was resurrected in 2009, and they continue to use the tang. Work easier updates to the original parkerization is worn a bit and has!